Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 10

Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 10

Lots of luck with that, Cahnyr thought dryly. It was a matter to which he’d given quite a lot of thought — and devoted much of his effort — during his own exile in Siddar City. Whatever they may want, in the end they’re going to have to choose between finding a way home to Zion or accepting the unavoidable conclusion of the steps they’ve already taken. And the truth is that the Charisians’ve been right from the very beginning. The Group of Four may be the ones twisting and perverting Mother Church at this particular moment, but if she isn’t reformed — reformed in a way that prevents any future Group of Four from hijacking her — they’ll only be replaced by someone else altogether too soon. More to the point, if the hesitaters don’t make up their mind to embrace Charis, they’ll inevitably fall to the Temple, and there won’t be any way “home” for any of them as long as Zhaspahr Clyntahn is alive.

He’d reached that conclusion long ago, even before Clyntahn butchered all of his friends and fellow members of Samyl Wylsynn’s circle of Reformist-minded vicars and bishops. Nothing he’d seen since had shaken it, and he’d spent much of his time during his exile from Glacierheart working to bolster the pro-Charis wing of the Reformist communities in and around Old Province and the capital. Fardhym had been one of the churchmen who’d very cautiously worked with him in that endeavor, which was a big part of his acceptability in Stohnar’s eyes.

And it doesn’t hurt that he had “Aivah’s” recommendation, as well,

Cahnyr thought, smiling faintly at the thought of the redoubtable woman who’d once been known as Ahnzhelyk Phonda . . . among other things. At the moment, she probably has more influence with Stohnar than virtually any nativeborn Siddarmarkian. After all, without her he’d be dead!

“You know, Gharth,” he said out loud, “technically, Archbishop Dahnyld has no authority over me whatsoever without the confirmation of his elevation to Primate of all Siddarmark by the Council of Vicars, which I don’t think, somehow, he’s going to be receiving anytime soon. Even if, by some miracle, that should happen, though, no one short of the Grand Vicar himself has the authority needed to strip an archbishop of his see or order him not to return to his archbishopric. And with all due respect to the Lord Protector, no layman, regardless of his civil office, has that authority, either.”

“Well, unless memory fails me, Your Eminence, the Grand Vicar named your replacement in Glacierheart quite some time ago,” his undutiful secretary shot back. “So if we’re going to concern ourselves about deferring to his authority rather than Archbishop Dahnyld’s, we should probably turn around and head home right now.”

“I was simply pointing out that what we confront here is something in the nature of a power vacuum,” Cahnyr said with the utmost dignity. “A situation in which the lines of authority have become . . . confused and blurred, requiring me to proceed as my own faith and understanding direct me.”

“Oh, of course it does, Your Eminence.” Gorjah frowned thoughtfully for a moment, then slowly and deliberately removed one glove so he could properly snap his thumb and second finger. “I know! We can ask Madam Pahrsahn’s opinion!”

“Oh, a low blow, Gharth. A low blow!” Cahnyr laughed, and Gorjah smiled. He hadn’t heard that infectious laugh out of his archbishop very often in the last year or so. Now Cahnyr shook a finger under his nose. “A dutiful, respectful secretary would not bring up the one human being in the entire world of whom his archbishop is terrified.”

“‘Terrified’ isn’t the word I’d choose, Your Eminence. I have observed, however, a distinct tendency on your part to . . . accept Madam Pahrsahn’s firmly urged advice, shall we say.”

“Diplomatically put,” Cahnyr said , then sighed. “You really are going to be stubborn about this, aren’t you?”

“Yes, Your Eminence, I am,” Gorjah said in a softer, much more serious tone. He reached out and laid his bare hand affectionately on his superior’s shoulder. “I know you don’t want to hear this, but you truly aren’t as young as you used to be. You’ve got to start taking at least some cognizance of that fact, because there are so many things you have to do. So many things only you can do. And because there are so many people who love you. You owe them a willingness to at least try to take care of yourself, especially when so many of their hopes are riding on your shoulders.”

Cahnyr gazed across into the taller, younger man’s eyes. Then he reached up and patted the hand on his shoulder.

“All right, Gharth. You win. This time, at least!”

“I’ll settle for any victories I can get, Your Eminence,” Gorjah assured him. Then he opened the inn’s front door and ushered the archbishop through it with a flourishing bow. Cahnyr chuckled, shook his head, and stepped back inside resignedly.

“Sent you to the right about, didn’t he just, Your Eminence?” Fraidmyn Tohmys, Cahnyr’s valet for over forty years, since his seminary days, remarked dryly from where he’d been waiting just inside that door. “Told you he would.”

“Did I ever mention to you that that ‘I told you so’ attitude of yours is very unbecoming?”

“Now that I think about it, you may have — once or twice, Your Eminence.”

Thomys followed the archbishop into the small, rustic, simply furnished side parlor which had been reserved for his personal use. The fire crackled and hissed, and the valet divested Cahnyr of his coat, gloves, scarf, and fur hat with the ease of long practice. Somehow, Cahnyr found himself seated in a comfortable chair, stocking feet towards the fire while his boots sat on a corner of the hearth and he sipped a cup of hot, strong tea.

The tea filtered down into him, filling him with a welcome heat, yet even as he sipped, he was aware of the flaws in the picture of warmth and comfort. The fire, for example, had been fed with lengths of split nearoak and logs of mountain pine, not coal, and under other circumstances, the cup of tea would have been a cup of hot chocolate or (more likely, in such a humble inn) thick, rich soup. But the coal that would normally have been shipped down the river from Glacierheart hadn’t been shipped this year, chocolate had become an only half-remembered dream of better times, and with so little food in anyone’s larder, the innkeeper was reserving all he had for formal meals.

And even the formal meals are altogether too skimpy,

Cahnyr thought grimly as he sipped his tea. He’d always practiced a degree of personal austerity rare among the Church’s senior clergy — one reason so many of that senior clergy had persistently underestimated him as they played the Temple’s power games — yet he’d also always had a weakness for a savory, well-prepared meal. He preferred simple dishes, without the course after course extravaganzas in which a sensualist like Zhaspahr Clyntahn routinely indulged, but he had had that appreciation for food.


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35 Responses to Midst Toil And Tribulation – Snippet 10

  1. ET1swaw says:

    A bit of a backround blurb, but tolerable. Let’s get to the action!!



  2. Nimitz13 says:

    If I read this right, Archbishop Cahnyr has been replaced, and therefore stripped of his see, and probably excommunicated and defrocked as well. He’s no longer the archbishop of Glacierheart, so the CoGA has sent an undoubtedly more ostentatious and self-indulgent replacement. Somehow I suspect that the new archbishop of Glacierheart is having a tough time winning over his parishioners… ;)

    So we have a face-off between a defrocked archbishop of the as of presumably yet unorganized “Church of Siddarmark” (or whatever they’ll call it) and an archbishop of the CoGA. Though how Siddarmark replaced their previous Archbishop with Archbishop Dahnyld Fardhym hasn’t been explained, though it appears Stohnar did it. Has Fardhym and the reformist clergy officially created the CoS?” If so, Cahnyr is only an archbishop in the CoS, and not the CoGA.

    Cahnyr is going to be a major rallying point for the dominant Reformist movement in Glacierheart. I look forward to his first meeting with his replacement, who I suspect will not have enjoyed the spartan conditions of Cahnyr’s quarters. (Or whatever you call the palace/offices of an Archbishop.) It’s possible the unfortunate replacement has been kept in even more spartan quarters for the past few months, as I expect the humble people of Glacierheart weren’t too keen on a new Archbishop who felt he was entitled to live the extravagant lifestyle most Archbishops live, and may have placed him under “arrest,” or simply killed him in response to the SoS, as he would have sided with Clyntahn.

    It’s quite interesting that Aivah Pahrsahn seems to have a large amount of authority, both secular and ecclesiastical. Stohnar owes her his life, and here she is, bossing Cahnyr around – and she, Stohnar, and Archbishop Fardhym made Cahnyr promise to listen to her advice before allowing him to return to Glacierheart to do something so crucial that his secretary said of it “so many of their hopes are riding on your shoulders.” I suspect he’s going there primarily to rally the reformists to Siddarmark’s defense, and to reduce the violence as much as possible.

    I realize we don’t know the routes taken by roads in Siddarmark, but what are they doing in Shiloh province, which was is partly controlled by very brutal Temple Loyalists? This seems a bit dangerous, but maybe the TLs are a couple of hundred miles away.

    To quote from HFaF: “The rebels had also managed to seize control of the southwestern portion of Shiloh Province, although it seemed unlikely they’d be able to hold on to it if Stohnar survived the winter. Unfortunately, the rebels appeared to be aware of that, and the pogroms and killings in Shiloh were brutal almost beyond belief. If southwestern Shiloh was retaken by the government, it was going to be mostly one huge sea of gutted farms and burned-out ruins.”

    A risky journey with an unclear reception when they arrive. Yet the government (Stohnar), the reformist Archbishop of Siddarmark (Fardhym), and most importantly Aivah Pahrsahn (Bleek!) signed off on Cahnyr doing this – in winter at his advanced age. So they must think his presence in Glacierheart is crucial to the future of Siddarmark.

  3. tootall says:

    #2 Hey “Bleeker”- Nice Analysis- you get a lot out of these snips.

  4. Ed says:

    Either that, nimitz13, or he is being set up for assination. Anytime we are presented with a character we like too much, they are a “red shirt”. I know his name isn’t Joe Buckly, but I would not start reading any long novels if I were him.

  5. Robert H. Woodman says:

    @4 – Ed

    I mentioned that back in the previous snippet’s comments. I think that DW is setting Cahner for a tragic martyrdom.

  6. Peter S says:

    Bummer. I like the character and can see him accomplishing much in the ultimate rebuilding of Siddarmark.

  7. Bewildered says:

    @2 The problem with those tactics is it makes reconquering Shiloh easy. Anyone breathing is CoGA and a war criminal so kill em all. Once the Siddarmarkian army gets used to those tactics and the CoGA approach to war they’re not going to be exactly chivalrous when they meet Temple Guardsmen. Could make for some ‘nice’ vicious scenes, though I don’t know DW is the right sort of author for that so I guess there’ll be some sort of Geneva Convention or something. I’m thinking SS on the Russian front sort of friendliness if it helps. Hmm was Rome as a republic nicer than the empire e.g. crosses? Just thinking it could be interesting if the civilised faithful of an independent enemy created by the Go4 proved more vicious than the Charisian Heretics.

    @4/@5 My question is what’s the point of martyring him? Unless it led to a fundamental schism between Siddarmark believers and the Go4, which pretty much has already happened, I don’t see the point. If it’s needless deaths then there are other characters available. True we did lose um the Prince of Emerald which was a mild low, that probably has ripple effects though. He was murdered by CoGA terrorists while protecting his wife and children I think? Need to reread. Don’t imagine other heads of stateto think of themselves as potentially mere collateral damage.

  8. KenJ says:

    @7 Yes, Nahrman died protecting his wife. (fortunately his kids weren’t around or they’d be dead.)

    However there is some speculation about how “dead” he really is. Yes his body is dead. Period. But was the device Merlin brought to calm the pain actually ‘just’ a medical tool or was it the personality recorder he had whipped up immediately after finding out about the archangels’ 1000 year surprise. If it was the recorder, I can understand why Merlin didn’t say anything about what it did because it might not work and would be cruel to get hopes up. Also knowing what it was would undoubtedly have harmed Nahrman’s and Olyvia’s last minutes together.

    This will, undoubtedly, open up an enormous ethical quandary. He used the recorder without the informed consent of the recordee. I am sure he violated (again) numerous Federation laws with that. Also, if it worked, how does he go about letting the others know that Nahrman is still around, if in an inconvenient form. (He can’t hug his wife and kids for example, unless they join him in the VR suite.)

    OTOH, It could have just been a medical device; standard in any first aid kit installed in, say, a skimmer where the pilot might be injured and need to keep consciousness as long as possible to get back to the mother ship and medical treatment or to finish the mission.

  9. Medic1532 says:

    Re Nahrman

    Imagine the mind of Nahrman inside Owl with the speed of access to intel made possible by the Snarcs coupled with his insight. Just a thought

  10. hank says:

    I doubt that the CoGA replacement for Canhyr is in Glacierheart. All the textev so far is that AB’s usually only make a short viss to their See, once a year. I also suspect the Grand iquisitor would want his puppet in Zion, firmly under his thumb. Now a confrontation with the Bishop Executor and/or the Intendent mentioned in previous books may be in the cards.

  11. robert says:

    @8 KenJ.
    I think you are correct about the “medical device” and that NB’s personhood is stored away on some kind of media-of-the-future. We will see him again at a critical time.

    I also do not believe that Cahnyr is heading to martyrdom. His job is to be the spiritual leader that will rally the opposition to defeat the Temple Guard. A kind of Joan of Arc sans sword and stake.

  12. ET1swaw says:

    Everything I remember about Cahnyr has him as a near living saint right up there with the Prelate of the Church of Charis.

    Both his latest Intendent (an Inquisition billet to begin with; and IIRC a possible assassin in waiting) and his recently replaced (once again IIRC) Bishop Executor (a mega-ambitious Clyntahn plant IMO) are die-hard fanatic Clyntahn (not just CoGA) backers.
    Who I would bet instituted Clyntahn’s “tactics/judgements” without delay (especially after Cahnyr’s miraculous escape (and they might even be far enough in the know to know about the number of “Circle”-dependents (including the Wyllsynns) escaping) that would have sent Clyntahn round the bend against Cahnyr’s beloved flock) and possibly with malice aforethought!!

    What I still don’t see is why he wasn’t chosen as the new AB of Siddarmark (basically the Prelate for whatever church(es) is emerging from the Siddarmark/Mainland Reformists)!!! (Maybe his resemblence to the CoC was too obvious? Or he categorically refused citing his duties to his present flock?)

    And WHAT could be so very important (to the resistance (Pahrsahn), the government (Stohnar), and the Reformist movements (new AB Siddarmark, the “Circle” remnants, his anti-Go4 parishioners)) to send him (an elderly, not fully healthy individual) through viscious winter cold and storms (along with almost all of the closest people to him in the world) and through an out-and-out (terrorist-tactic-filled)civil war zone to a poorly populated (and dropping fast), economically-distraught wildeness(his side I can see, his flock (that unlike an overwhelming majority of CoGA “men-of-God” he was known worldwide for attending/caring-for and loving/blessing as much as possible) is in dire straits (vicious terrorist tactics from both sides, starvation, witch-hunted as heretics))?!?!?!?!?!?

    As to Nahrmann’s viability in the VR device and how to tell: his wife is part of the ‘Inner Circle’ (who can probably be informed of the possibilities and accept them) and his children and the world-at-large need never know.
    What I am wondering is how Merlin is going to triage the extrememly limited availability/practicality of these units even if they are marginally viable.
    And if full-download into AI format was a viable/valid TF option (especially as they all had NEATS for the download bandwidth), why wasn’t it mentioned/used-more.
    I am sure someone like Langhorne would have loved to dig a hole (where he is the god in the machine) and pull it in after himself (after all, isn’t that what he attempted with Safehold (with the added bonus that his subjects/worshippers were REAL people not simulations in VR))!!!

    IAWAFAIC!!!!! This book just gets more and more interesting!!!


  13. Drak Bibliophile says:

    Rob one point, I got the impression that nobody is sending Cahnyr back to Glacierheart.

    He wanted to go and everybody else didn’t believe that they should stop him for going back.

  14. Also, a nation with a cold climate and growing industry needs all the coal it can get, and Glacierheart has that.

  15. PeterZ says:

    @13 More like they didn’t believe they could stop him, Drak. I believe that this is more a matter of a man living up to the responsibilities he demands of himself (or what Cahnyr believes God asks of him) than any more calculated motives.

    What results from it may very well be as the bleekmeister has speculated on or it may be as RHW posits. The motive is much simpler, I think.
    As for me I tend to sider with Nimitz13. Cahnyr will end up trying to mitigate some of the excesses. Martyrs rarely calm things down, their creation tends to heat things up quite a bit.

  16. Drak Bibliophile says:

    PeterZ, I agree with “they didn’t believe they could stop him” and thought that was what I said. [Wink]

    As for what happens to him, “Tum, te, tum, te, tum . . . .”

    Yes, I just had to say that [Wink]

  17. ET1swaw says:

    @13-@16: I guess I will go along with you guys in the ‘they didn’t send him, just couldn’t stop him’ crowd. It does make more sense that way anyway!!

    What I am afraid of is the fact that Cahnyr has 3 of the 4 most important people in the world to him (baby “Jason” may be back with Pahrsahn, but Jason’s parents and Cahnyr’s long-time valet/factotum aren’t) blithely heading (right along with him) into a hellish situation. (Talk about hostages to Destiny)

    And unlike the priest in Corisande (provedbly assaulted/martyred by CoGA Priests and fanatic Temple Loyalists) or even Nahrmahnn (dying protecting his wife from the assassination-attempt/terrorist-bombing), the sacrifice/martyrdom of Cahnyr (or his retinue) IMO will have small effect on the already dramatic polarization in Siddarmark (especially in Shiloh and Glacierheart).
    They already KNOW what Clyntahn’s minions and they themselves are capable of stooping to.
    And I regretfully doubt that Cahnyr’s actions and/or especially martyrdom will materially alter things.
    (most especially with Clyntahn’s near-command for his followers to unleash their basest desires (without guilt or blame) against the perfidious heretics (who could be ANYONE (your enemy, the man who you owe money, someone whose property you desire)) hiding amongst you of the faithful)

    It would be IMO a WASTED DEATH!!
    And though I know they happen often in reality, I don’t want my fictional heroes/saints to DIE FOR NOTHING!!
    Even Dynnyss and the Wyllsynns had defining deaths (nasty but defining) as have those martyred by the Inquisition.


  18. ET1swaw says:

    OTOH Cahnyr’s martyrdom might be a massive injection of oxidizer (simple increase or FAE) into the anti-CoGA fire. But I really really don’t want to see it for myself, please. (I like it when good guys get-ahead/win/survive in my fiction as I see so seldom in Reality (shades of grey become shades of black all too easily when doing things nobody should have to do))


  19. PeterZ says:

    @16 Drak, as a non-native English speaker the nuances between could and should sometimes escapes me as well as de facto and de jure. Still I manage to muddle through for the most part. Sorry if this impediment of mine caused a misunderstanding.

    As for what happens to him, well the calculus of that is somewhat clear and straight forward. What plot requirement is served with his martyrdom? How does his survival enhance or detract from the plot requirements? Does his survival enhance the clarity of the story’s conflict? Detract from it? Does his survival or martyrdom improve or detract from the story’s predictablitiy?

    Type those values into my ESL for native English speakers plot analysis software from SPSS (partial least sum of squares function) and voila! (I tried the straight ESL version but that’s just too demanding for the stats software.) The Answer!
    He survives after woderful daring do. His reputation in the eyes of the reformers is hightened massively. His reputation in the eyes of the Loyalists is surprisingly high as well. Something to do with his defense of loyalists’ ability to worship as they wish and right to protection under the law. All that libertarian stuff that often gets lost in the clutter of heated passions. Absent a moderating influence the situation will devolve into complete chaos. As it stands, it will be wery very bad indeed.

    Resutls suggests that martyrdom simply wont move the story along nearly as well. Whose mind does he change with his martyrdom? Those that love and revere him won’t revere him any less. Those that are disappointed in him for not remaining loyal to the CoGA won’t change their mind.

  20. JeffM says:

    I am shocked–shocked, I say!–that any of you would think that Madame Pahrsohn, whose intelligence is doubtless nigh flawless, would allow AB Cahnyr to travel anywhere NEAR a hot zone! Didn’t this and the prior snippet make her care for him clear? :)

    Well…unless maybe he were bait for an overwhelming trap–

  21. RichardK says:

    @10 hank I think Canhyr plans to beat his replacement to Glacierheart.

    @2 Nimitz13 IIRC the coal river route to Siddar City passes thru the northern boundry of Shiloh province. I think Canhyr’s path takes him along the the river.

    I believe that Canhyr has a major load of moral authority in Glacierheart. He should be able to draw anyone to him who is looking for stability. This in turn will draw the SoS into (reckless?) attack. Resulting in ??

  22. Nimitz13 says:

    @17 I’d bet that Madam Pahrsahn’s “babysitting” includes sending a military force to protect Cahnyr & co. So he’s likely to survive any attacks by Temple Loyalists during his journey, as I suspect the Madam most likely has troops shadowing him and scouting ahead. I imagine he put his foot down about returning to his flock surrounded by “armed goons,” which is why he APPEARS to have no guardsmen with him. I’d guess his secretary may know about them, but he doesn’t.

    In the absence of a secret cadre of protective troops, there’s no doubt that an unfriendly reception awaits him at his destination, since Father Teagmahn, the intendant who Clyntahn personally sent to Glacierheart to spy on Cahnyr, is waiting for him in Tairys with the Inquisition. I’m sure the hamfisted Father Teagmahn would be quite happy to capture him and either administer the rites of Scheuler himself, or send him off to Zion to be publicly tortured to death if he has orders to do so. (In which case Cahnyr’s flock would rescue him.)

    Madam Parhsahn may have made plans to ensure that any surviving members of the Inquisition in Tairys are treated as the EoC would treat them BEFORE Cahnyr arrives. (A considerably quicker and less painful death than Father Teagmahn contemplates for Cahnyr!) Perhaps she’s arranged for some of his flock to take care of the problem, or she’s already sent an advance force of guardsmen to deal with the Inquisition. Cahnyr is one of the few survivors of the circle and a very high profile reformist, so he’s got a huge target on his back. If by some stretch of the imagination Madam Parhsahn hasn’t planned anything, he is well loved throughout Glacierheart and his flock will preserve his safety with picks and shovels if they have to – or we might see that man with the arbalest from the earliest snippets again.

    @Lots of people, Cahnyr is HIGHLY unlikely to be martyred. His is the only voice both sides in the conflict in Glacierheart will listen to. His role is most likely to settle things down and to point out that Clyntahn and the Inquisition have turned brother against brother using the SoS. Given the privations that the already humble (Think dirt poor) people of Glacierheart have suffered this winter, once spring and Charisian food supplies arrive, I think even a few TLs are going to listen to him. The true enemy of Glacierheart lives in Zion, not amongst themselves – including the TLs who have held true to mother church. Cahnyr is the Glacierheart equivalent of Staynair, the quiet, loving voice of reason in a world gone mad.

    As for why he didn’t take the job as Archbishop of Siddarmark, Stohnar probably offered it to him. But as I – and and several others have pointed out, Cahnyr obviously felt he should minister to the needs of his flock in Glacierheart. He’d make an excellent head of the CoS, but that’s not the role he feels God has chosen for him. He’s dedicated his life to the people of his See, he knows countless numbers of them by name, and they’re killing each other. He feels the pain of a parent who knows his children are murdering one another, initially at the behest of that Godless psychopath in Zion, and now simply to survive.

    On a more worldly note, Siddarmark is going to need a LOT more Glacierheart coal in the future for their expanding steel production, which was another reason Cahnyr was allowed to leave immediately; first to settle things down, and then to get the mines operating again. A decade from now we can expect improved mining methods using steam engines, but for now it’s still picks and shovels.

    It may be easier at this point for Charis to provide modern weapons to the Siddarmarkan army rather than to modernize the comparatively crude local steel and gun making industries – although those gunmakers will be given modern designs to work from and I wouldn’t be surprised if Howsmyn sends an expert or two to modernize their foundries. (Siddarmark won’t get the plans for breech-loaders I suspect, since the EoC doesn’t want a local TL to send the plans and a prototype to Zion.) That’s a secret they need to keep for as long as possible.

    THIS year breech-loaders are going to be decisive in the battles where the ICA is heavily outnumbered, (All of them!) even though they’ll probably outgun their opponents even without breech-loaders since the ICA all have at least rifled flintlocks. The thousands of revolvers the troops are carrying will come as a nasty surprise when the AoG closes to what they think is bayonet range – in the rain! Bleek!

  23. KenJ says:

    Revolver RIFLES?


  24. KenJ says:

    The Colt 1850 Infantryman’s rifle was a revolving 6-shooter. Even without brass cartridges and speedloaders, I can see the manufacture of them with pop-out cylinders a’la Merlin’s pistols. Wouldn’t THAT be a nasty surprise for someone and would get R&D people thinking on ways to improve on the concept.

  25. tootall says:

    # 23 and #24
    There WAS a revolving rifle. And it worked “so well” during the Civil War (War of Northern Aggression) that it was replaced. Problems with muzzle volicity and hitting power. And apparently there was a problem that the firing chamber sometimes set off the powder in the other chambers….

  26. Nimitz13 says:

    I was referring of course to copies of “Merlin’s” revolvers, which according to er, um OOOPS!
    Tum tee tum tee tum… ;) Bleek!

  27. Mike says:

    @7: Rome was generally not “nice” in their policies at any time. They were more “pragmatic” than anything else. It was easier and more profitable to incorporate people politically than it was to conquer them, so if foreigners agreed to be obedient vassals to Rome then they were usually treated decently or better. If they decided to fight Rome, then they were usually made to be an example for everyone else.

  28. PeterZ says:

    Cahnyr will set up the situation in Glacierheart. So one last snippet, then where? Perchance Merlin and Sharley? Or the Iron Monger? Perhaps Seamount and the new wunderkind?

    Where oh where shall we go next?

  29. JeffM says:

    @26 Which, according to an earlier snippet, were NOT going to be a priority in production?

  30. Nimitz13 says:

    @29 Ah, no, it wasn’t in an earlier snippet from MTaT I’m afraid. RFC posted it in the “A TEENY TINY SNIPPET . . . SORT OF [G]” thread on the Weber Forums, and I forgot that snippet happens later in the book. So when I mentioned revolvers here, I inadvertently introduced a spoiler. OOPS! Bad Nimitz13, no Bleek!

  31. KenJ says:

    It’s not too hard to extrapolate that Merlin’s revolvers would get out into the field ASAP, Nimitz13. Don’t feel too bad.

    …And, yes, I look forward to when AoG soldiers run into ICA and AoS soldiers, armed with revolvers, in situations similar to what you mentioned. The looks on their faces would be PRICELESS!!!

    @29 I believe it was PISOLS (2 shot, muzzle loading, flintlocks) which weren’t a priority production based on an earlier BOOK (BHD I think). 6-shooters OTOH are such a force multiplier in such situations that I can see a strong argument to divert capacity to producing them.

  32. PeterZ says:

    @31 KenJ, over breach loading rifles!? I think not. Breach loading rifles first, rifled field canons and shells second and maybe then the revolver. Tha range issue is the primary draw back. Both priorities can kill the enemy from beyond a range to respond. The revolver is GTH weapon when everything is well and truly whacked. Build the weapons to control the battlefield first and the GTH weapon next.

  33. KenJ says:

    Ah, but they have a WORKING model of the revolver Right Now!!! Breach loading rifles are still in the prototype stage and artillery, while ready to produce, is still a secret they have up their sleeves. It may even be in production but the area that the revolvers would take away from is rifle production.

    They can go into production on revolvers Now, and once they have the breach loaders ready for production switch over the capacity. Meanwhile you have a stockpile of working revolvers all ready to deploy.

    Now, if they had worked out the bugs on the rifles by now, then of COURSE build as many as quickly as possible and get them into the army’s hands to train and use.

    What I am looking forward to even more is Infantry Mortars. Gen. Kynt Clayrik wants them even more than I do.

  34. PeterZ says:

    @33 Mortars may have been sneaked into the weapons queue. Re-read the discussion on breach loaded rifles. They have a conversion process for existing flintlocks. They had a prototype for a straight-up breach loader months before they ever heard of a revolver. They have muzzle loading rifled artillery already. The Charisian testbed is a wires bound 12 pounder rifled muzzle loader. Not prototype, but model ready for production to stockpile. The decision to stockpile had to be made early in HFaF. Sounded very likely that Cayleb et al were leaning towards producing the artillery they had.

    The only way that revolvers will be widely deployed is if charis has made enough rifles and 12 pounder rifled field pieces. That may well be possible given the timelines for rifle and artillery production in HFaF.

  35. DKCWong says:

    Having a full-time job and lots of personal commitments makes it hard to get away and follow all these threads properly. Unless, I’ve missed something in the books and these snippets I don’t know where it’s stated that Charis can mass-produce six-shooters/revolvers. I recall in MF that Merlin mentioned to the head of Princess Irys’ guards that his friend ‘Owl’ provided him with the revolvers. I don’t recall any mention of them being ready for ‘mass’ production. In any case, I agree with PeterZ that breach loading rifles should be the first production priority to equip the Imperial Charisian Army (after or equal to breach loading artillery and mortars and while we are at it a functional grenade type weapon would be nice if they can miniaturize the contact fuze technology they already developed or come up with a even more reliable burning compound). Even in the American Civil War the mainstay weapon was the rifle (muzzle-loaders) and revolvers were primarily issued to calvary and artillery units and officers. Plus, it’s a little hard to put a bayonet on a pistol.

    I would definitely want to decimate an enemy as far away from my own positions as possible. Merlin could hit human size targets at over 100 feet with his revolvers, but the average human Safeholdian soldier would be hardpressed to hit accurately under, combat conditions, a moving target at 50 feet. And if I were on the front-line I would prefer to pass on seeing the expressions of enemy soldiers that were close enough for me to use a revolver effectively.

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