A Rising Thunder – Snippet 34

A Rising Thunder – Snippet 34


“It certainly won’t. And neither will Admiral Tourville’s glowing report on how well his people were treated after surrendering,” she agreed, then sighed. “I’ve always regretted ordering that attack, and the number of people who got killed — on both sides — because I did is always going to haunt me. But at least something good may come out of it in the end.”


It was Honor’s turn to nod, although the good Pritchart was referring to hadn’t come solely out of the Battle of Manticore. Thomas Theisman’s determination that any prisoners his Republic took would be decently treated had gone a long way towards washing the taste of StateSec’s barbarisms out of the Star Empire’s mouth. And for that matter —


“Your decision to bring all the tech people Admiral Griffith captured at Grendelsbane along with you is going to do even more from our side,” she said quietly. “Especially the fact that you brought them all home — made their repatriation a unilateral concession — without knowing whether or not we were even going to talk to you.”


“That was a master stroke,” Elizabeth put in, her voice equally quiet, and shrugged when Pritchart looked back to her. “I’m not trying to suggest it was all political calculation, and neither is Honor. But once it sinks in that you’d decided to repatriate forty-two thousand Manticorans without any preconditions — and forty-two thousand trained and experienced shipyard workers, at that — one hell of a lot of entrenched ill feeling is going to take a shot on the chin. Especially given how desperately we need people like that after the Yawata Strike.”


Pritchart shrugged a little uncomfortably.


“Well, we’ll find out soon enough whether we’re being too pessimistic or Duchess Harrington’s being too optimistic, I suppose,” she said. “Especially when we go public about my presence here in the Star Empire.”


She still wasn’t positive that was the best idea. They couldn’t keep her arrival a secret forever, of course — in fact, she was amazed it hadn’t already leaked, given the number of ambassadors who’d been consulted — but once Elizabeth handed the treaty over to Parliament, that little secret was going to be as thoroughly outed as any in the history of humanity. Nor was she blind to the PR advantages in publicizing her “daring mission.” Yet she was still the woman who’d ordered the resumption of hostilities almost three T-years ago…and the one who’d ordered Thomas Theisman to Launch Operation Beatrice against this very star system.


“Oh, I’m not worried about that.” Elizabeth waved one hand.


She and Pritchart had discussed the president’s concerns in detail, and the empress was convinced the other woman was worrying unduly. Yes, the Battle of Manticore had killed an enormous number of people, but far fewer than the Yawata Strike, and all of them had been military casualties. Unlike the people behind the Yawata Strike, the Republic had scrupulously avoided preventable civilian casualties. After fifteen T-years fighting the People’s Republic, even the most anti-Havenite Manticoran had been only too well aware of what a change that represented, and the contrast with the slaughter of the Yawata Strike only underscored the difference. Say what the most bigoted Manticoran might, the restored Republic had fought its war with honor, and the majority of Manticorans knew it.


“To be honest, I’m more concerned about Simões,” Elizabeth went on. “We’ve got to go public with most of what Cachat and Zilwicki brought back from Mesa, or we’re never going to sell this to your Congress, Eloise. For that matter, there are enough diehard Haven-haters in the Star Empire to make it a hard sell here without that, even with Filareta bearing down on us! But the bottom line is that it’s still awfully thin for anyone who’s inclined to be skeptical about what we’ve been saying about Mesa — or Manpower, at least. And, frankly, with the best will in the universe, there’s only so much Simões can confirm.”


Pritchart sighed heavily in agreement. Then she surprised both of the Manticorans — and herself — with a sudden snort of amusement.


“What?” Elizabeth asked after a moment.


“I was just thinking about a conversation Tom Theisman and I had on that very subject,” the President replied, and cocked her head at Honor. “I believe you’ve met Admiral Foraker, Your Grace?”


“Yes, I have,” Honor agreed. “Why?”


“Because I’ve turned out to be even more prophetic than I expected. Right after Cachat and Zilwicki brought Simões in, we were discussing the intelligence windfall he represented, and Tom was waxing pretty enthusiastic…until I asked how valuable an intelligence source he thought Shannon Foraker would have been outside her own specialty.”


“Oh, my.” Honor gazed at her for a moment, then shook her head. “I hadn’t really thought of that comparison, but it does fit, doesn’t it?”


“Too well, actually.”


Pritchart smiled tartly, but the unfortunate truth was that Herlander Simões really was a male version of Shannon Foraker…and in more ways than one. Like Foraker, he’d been so immersed in his tightly focused researcher’s world that he’d been almost totally oblivious to the “big picture.” For that matter, the people responsible for the Mesan Alignment’s security had obviously taken pains to encourage his tunnel-vision. Also like Foraker, however, his apolitical disinterest in the system in which he’d lived had been shattered. Foraker’s awakening had led directly to the destruction of twenty-four State Security superdreadnoughts in a star system called Lovat, and while it was unlikely Simões was going to inflict anything that overtly dramatic upon the Alignment, the long-term effects of his defection were likely to be far worse, eventually. But that was the problem, because “eventually” might not offer a great deal of short-term benefit when it came to getting the draft treaty ratified.


No one was ever going to get Simões back into obliviousness again, yet his fierce determination to do anything he could to smash the Alignment didn’t change the fact that he could offer virtually nothing concrete about the Alignment’s master strategy, its military resources, or exactly how the Mesa System’s open power structure fitted into the Alignment’s covert structure. None of those things had mattered to him before Francesca Simões’ death, and he hadn’t exactly been taking notes for a future defection after his daughter’s termination, either.


The president thought once more of the tragedy of Jack McBryde’s death. Most of what they “knew” about the Alignment came from the information he’d produced to convince Victor Cachat and Anton Zilwicki to help him and Simões defect. Kevin Usher’s Federal Investigation Agency had turned up forensic evidence which strongly corroborated at least some of McBryde’s allegations, and Pritchart was thankful they had even that much, but without McBryde himself to be debriefed in detail (and trotted out to testify before Congress and Parliament), they still had far more questions than answers. Questions whose answers almost certainly would have helped enormously with the ratification fight she expected.


And let’s face it, Eloise, she told herself, McBryde would’ve been a lot more convincing than Simões as a “talking head” in front of the media, too. I believe everything Simões has told us, and God knows the man’s got motivation by the megaton! But he simply doesn’t know enough — not firsthand, not in the areas that really matter — to sell a determined skeptic our version of The Truth. And, bless him, but the man is a geek of truly Forakerian proportions.


She shuddered at the memory of the last time Foraker had testified before the Senate Naval Affairs Committee. Even today, her inability to translate her own technical expertise into political-speak was awesome to behold. In the end, Theisman had been forced to trot out Linda Trenis to interpret for his pet tech witch.


“You know a lot of people, and not just Mesans or Sollies, are going to say this whole thing is one huge fabrication,” she went on out loud.


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27 Responses to A Rising Thunder – Snippet 34

  1. ET1swaw says:

    Simoes is Foraker on steroids; Good Grief!!!
    Their only witness (without fully exposing intelligence assets) is immenently impeachable. No matter how much it all fits they have —NO— incontrevertible proof. Opponents everywhere (Manticore, Haven, Andermanni, Alliance, etc.) NTM enemies (SL, RF, MAlign) will have a field day!!!
    NTM how ill-informed he will be about oh so much!!!!!!!!

    Then again the Yawata Strike did reinforce that the new enemy does not play by gentleman’s rules while the Republic of Haven is —–NOT—– StateSec, Legislaturist, or the Peeps. Byng’s destruction of the anchored (wedge down) destroyers and denial of responsibility; NTM his, Crandle’s?sp?, and presumably Filareta’s attitude indicate the SLN considers themselves above the law!!

    Yes Eloise did iniate both ‘Thunderbolt’ and ‘Beatrice’ with their attendant losses to both sides, but Haven and Manticore were officially at war during both (temporary truce diplomatically (if unilaterally) terminated prior to ‘Thunderbolt’). Neither the SL or Mesa/MAlign has declared anything; they just continue to attack without justification. Torch (and the Ballroom) is in declared war with Manpower/Mesa; but IIRC Manticore, the Alliance, Andermanni, Beowulf, and Haven just enthusiastically enforce the ‘Cherwell Convention’.

    She repatriated Mike prior to the aborted (we now know by MAlign) Torch Summit. Repatriating the techs prior to this summit / alliance might strike a chord. Unlike Saint Just after Buttercup, this is not a strategic truce for either side; but an attempt at treaty/binding alliance.

    Torch and Erewhon have yet to come up (NTM the disputed planets (Haven’s, Manticore’s, independent) from the War). With the shared responsibilities, I thought they would be a hot topic.

  2. John Roth says:

    They have to get something through quickly so they can bring the Haven fleet in to meet Filaretta. Time’s a’wasteing. There’s going to be lots of time to argue over the details later.

  3. dave o says:

    #2 John: I suspect that Filareta’s fleet comes through before any treaty can be ratified. And that Pritchard sends Haven’s fleet in on her own authority. Haven’s pride in the results will remove most obstacles mentioned in this snippet. Alas, it will be replaced by concern over a war with the SL.

  4. John Roth says:

    @3 dave o

    Wormholes have a capacity. Someone calculated that it will take 3 days for the entire Haven fleet to transit that bridge. See the item a few chapters earlier that the bridge from Beowulf would only take about 30 Solly SDs (Havens are bigger) and would then be unusable for 17 hours. Or the Haven attack on Basilisk where Home Fleet was able to save the wormhole infrastructure, but wasn’t able to get through fast enough to save the infrastructure around the planet.

  5. B Taylor says:

    @4 John Roth – The time it took White Haven (who had 8th Fleet, not Home) to get to Basilisk was mostly due to travel time from where he was to the Junction (and message time to him from Basilisk). The transit time would have mattered if the Havenite force had been at the Junction.

  6. ET1swaw says:

    @4 John Roth: That downtime and limit from Beowulf to Manticore WHJ is for a simultaneous transit.
    Trevor’s Star to Manticore WHJ is limited to the tonnage rate used in BoMa for McKeon’s squadron, the CLACs, and the fleet they joined and by HH with Andy backup when she made it to the WHJ from her exercise area.
    White Haven also used a similar continuous transit (from Manticore WHJ to Basilisk) with primarily Grayson units earlier to mitigate the Basilisk portion of ‘Thunderbolt’ IIRC.
    AFAIK the complete RoH fleet hanging around Trevor’s Star can do a continuous transit through to Manticore WHJ in a matter of hours (possibly double digits for 200+ ships) rather than days. Mind you all other traffic will take a back seat during that transit!

  7. Wolf says:

    @4 Given that during the battle of Manticore both 3rd and 8th fleet managed to translate to Manticore from Trevor’s star I can’t see how it would take three days. The time for the SDs and carriers of 8th, minus McKeon’s and Truman’s ships which at been attached to 3rd fleet, was only 75 minutes. It actually took less time but that was because Harrington elected to though the rest of her SDs and carriers though in a simultaneous transit to get into battle quicker after Adm Chin’s ship appeared. Now that time was for transit with no room for error so I presume they would take longer in order to be safe. Let’s say 3 times more time between transits. That is still under 4 hours for the number of SDs and carriers Harrington brought to the party during the BoM. Even if the Haven fleet is 6 times the size it’s still under a day. Unless Theisman is bringing all of Haven’s ships I fail to see how it will take 3 days. Do you remember if that calculation was on Weber’s site or the Bar?

    In Echoes of Honor it wasn’t the time White Haven’s 8th fleet took to make its double transit from Trevor’s Star to Manticore to Basilisk that prevented it from doing anything to save the planets infrastructure. It was astrography. The distance between the terminus in the Basilisk system and the planet is so great that they are beyond mutual support range. As Vice Admiral Markham, the CO of the Basilisk picket during this event, it takes 22 to 26 hours for a capital ship (depending on whether it is a BC or SD) to get from the terminus to the planet. Thus even the picket sitting on the terminus when the Peeps first showed up was unable to get anywhere close enough to Markham to help let alone White Haven’s ships. While the capacity of wormhole did slow down his transfer to Basilisk it was the distance from the terminus to the star that prevented any support of Markham’s ships.


  8. John Roth says:

    @7 Wolf

    The calculation was on Weber’s site; I very seldom drop in to the Bar. The last couple of times have been fairly good, but before that the web interface was miserable enough that I still don’t go there.

    However, the same logic applies to the Manticore system. The junction is a bit over 3 light-hours from Manticore A, and at least that far from Manticore B, depending on their current relationship. Filaretta’s transit has to be on the opposite side of the star from the Junction to avoid the resonance zone.

    Even if they can get through in 3 hours, it’s going to take well over that to get to either of the planets, and then longer to firm up into anything resembling an effective battle fleet.

    If they wait to transit until after Filaretta arrives, they’re going to be late to the party. And if the SL somehow does manage to get a second fleet through from Beowulf and the forts don’t slaughter it immediately, it would be really interesting times. Then there’s that order changing the plan that Filaretta received; we know nothing about what it contains, although I suspect he’s supposed to sneak a dispatch boat in so it can transit and coordinate with the fleet supposedly waiting at Beowulf, while he waits in hyper.

  9. Wolf says:

    @6 There was no Basilisk portion of Thunderbolt. Nor did any games have to played with the junction. The junction episode in War of Honor which was just prior to Thunderbolt was when Adm MacDonnell of the Grayson Space Navy had to force his way though the Junction from Manticore to Trevor’s Star with White Haven, who wasn’t a serving officer at the time, doing the fast talking and threating of the High Ridge appointee in command of the Astro control.

    Also some general information for anyone since this may be importany for any discussions we have here:

    The maxium mass for a single transit is ~200 million tons that is the amount that locks down that wormhole for 17 hours. So thats roughly 20 10million ton SD or for the Sollies 30 for their 6.8 million ton Scientist class.

    Any transit of the Manticore junction destabilized that terminus for a minimum of 10 seconds. Transits of greater than 2.5 million tons destabilize it for a time which is porportional to the square of the tranisting mass.

    Thus an echo of honor era DN will take it down for ~70 seconds and a SD of the same time period for 117 seconds

    And while typing this I just realized something rather amusing. The SLN SD classes we’ve seen so far the Scientist and Vega classes aren’t real SDs by the standards of the Haven Sector navies. Or perhaps it would be better to say they are barely SDs. The cut off between DNs and SDs as of the start of the First Haven War and before size creep was ~7 million tons in one of the info dumps. Manty DNs were 5.7 million tons and SDs about 8 millions tons at that time. But this is completely off topic.


  10. Wolf says:

    @8 I feel your pain in regards to the Bar I haven’t been there in about 6 years now I guess, finally got tired of dealing with the issues of it and my browser. I try to avoid Weber’s site when its a few months before the release of a new book. I personally hate spoilers.

    I agree completely with the Haven fleet being out of position if they wait until the SLN shows up but I can’t see that happening. Someone failed at something, and probably many at many things, if they delay it that long.

    I’m of the opinion that the hypothetical transit from Beowulf is a red herring. I have no proof and won’t until next week when the book is out. That said I don’t see how it will be able to happen. I think Beowulf has to warn the Manties before hand. Also I can see that is the SNL fleet does arrive the Beowulf SDF might delay it before it can make transit. A 10 minute delay is plenty for the forts to clear for action. Now on a different thought about that remember when Beowulf people were talking about it they stated that they don’t actually hold title to it and it is leased by a private company on Beowulf for purposes of Astro Control. If that is accurate and not the characters being sloppy with describing it then Manticore owns the terminus by treaty presumably. So to further build upon this completely unfounded hypothesis Manticore might have the right to deploy military assets to protect the terminus in an emergency. If they can get away with it legally I see no way Caparelli wouldn’t avail himself of at least putting at least some ships there. They might not be able to get away with putting a fleet to prevent transit give the diplomatic minefield it could be but a cruiser division or destroyer squadron would be enough to be a trip wire to warn of an incoming attack. Now that said. I have been SO wrong before when guessing where Weber is headed I may have very well out thought myself on that one.

    I need to reread the snippets with Filaretta I must have read the one with those orders when mostly asleep and don’t remember it.


  11. JeffM says:

    Just curious, umm…if Pritchart has been here for more than a week, and already repatriated 42K Manticoran prisoners–what makes you guys think that the Havenite SD’s haven’t already transited?

    All that they would have to do is have the Junction closed for a “military exercise”, have the forts “test” their jammers, and have the Havenites raise their stealth before proceeding from the Junction. I get the impression that dispatch boat sensors aren’t going to see a whole lot.

    @6–What “other traffic”? :)

  12. John Roth says:

    @10 Wolf.

    A few weeks ago DW clarified the ownership issue concerning the 12 lm rule and 12 lh rules. Anything within 12 lm of the hyper limit must identify itself and ask permission. Notice that this comes close to doubling the diameter of the hyper limit for most stars.

    A system owns everything within 6 light-hours of the primary, as long as it is capable of projecting a reasonable amount of force to secure it. That doesn’t have to be a huge amount – a few LACs would suffice as far as interstellar law is concerned. Given that, I presume that the Beowulf terminus is outside of the 6 light-hour limit, since the Beowulf SDF certainly qualifies.

    There’s only one sentence. Here’s the quote from snippet 30:

    The news that the Manties were closing wormhole termini to Solarian traffic was not something he’d wanted to hear. Whatever else it might indicate, it hardly sounded like the action of a star nation reeling from a surprise attack and terrified for its very life. One might have expected people in that position to be looking for ways to avoid infuriating something the size of the Solarian League, which didn’t appear to have even crossed the Star Empire’s mind. That was a disconcerting thought, and the fact that neither Rajampet nor his civilian masters seemed to share it was even more unpleasant. Judging from their amendment of his original mission orders, however, the only “thinking” they appeared to have done was to fasten on it as yet another Manty “provocation” to justify their own actions. They certainly hadn’t been dissuaded by it, at any rate!

  13. John Roth says:

    @11 JeffM

    The reason I think they haven’t transited is that they just said news hadn’t leaked out although they’d told the various ambassadors. Bringing a Havenite force into Manticoran space would be treason until the treaty is signed.

    The Trevor’s Star terminal is almost certainly carrying civilian traffic, if only from San Martino. There are undoubtedly unaffiliated systems that are closer to there than to either Basilisk or Erewhon as well. It’s probably not carrying a whole lot of traffic, although once the treaties go through traffic ought to see a significant upswing.

  14. Drak Bibliophile says:

    What civilian traffic through the Trevor’s Star terminal is likely only to and from San Martino.

    IIRC the Trevor’s Star system is off-limit to regular traffic.

    Remember, Trevor’s Star is within Haven controlled space.

    Besides the potential spies amoung “neutral shipping”, Manticore doesn’t want truly neutral shipping around if another Haven fleet paid a hositle visit.

    However, since all the terminals “let out” in the same general area, there would be problem with secrecy when the Haven fleet is allowed through.

    Likely, Manticore would have to “clear out” neutral shipping from the area of the Wormhole before the Haven fleet comes through.

    By the way, I’m not sure that it would be treason if Queen Elizabeth and her government allow the Haven fleet through before the actual treaty is signed since they have good reason to believe that the Haven fleet is not a threat.

    Of course, I’m not an expert on Manticorian Law. [Wink]

  15. JeffM says:

    @13. John–Can Elizabeth commit treason to herself? Interesting paradox. She’d have to order herself beheaded. Would that constitute suicide in the Manticoran Reformed Church? If so, she wouldn’t be able to be buried in hallowed ground! ;)

    @14. Drak, just how much inbound shipping is there? It seems to me that if all of the merchant fleet has been recalled, if most are back, they would have popped home, then immediately set out to the areas where they are ALLOWED to go (presumably Silesia, Talbott, Andermani space, Grayson and the other Allies) in desperate search of any contracts they can scrape up. It’s a good time to be a shipper in those areas–and should be a boon to Talbott and Silesia. Remember how pathetically grateful some of those planets were for traffic when a certain heavy(?) cruiser dropped by? (of course, I don’t have a book handy)

    I still say it would have been hard to miss the transport for 42K former prisoners coming through the wormhole–especially with Havenite transponders. Even if they were transhipped to Manticoran hulls at Trevor’s Star. Given that it’s a military reservation–“Gee, Milord, why did twenty military transports just go through to Trevor, then return a day later???” :)

  16. JeffM says:

    And yes, I’ll immediately start begging for “Midst Toil and Trouble” snippets! Please, please, please! ;)

    Thanks for your time and toil. Drak!

  17. John Roth says:

    @15 JeffM

    Manticore is a constitutional monarchy, so the Queen doesn’t have that kind of absolute authority. There were some comments in the last snippet about Steadholder Alexander-Harrington having the kind of absolute authority that President Pritchert and Queen Elizabeth could only dream of. Even so, the Steadholders are subject to the Sword and the Conclave of Keys.

    As we’re seeing in the Middle East today, even the most ruthless absolute monarch has boundaries he can’t cross without causing a revolt; that isn’t a situation we’ve seen to date in the Honorverse, and I doubt if it’s a situation that David is interested in exploring in this story.

    I imagine that the former POWs will be coming through as soon as the new treaty is made public; coming through earlier would effectively be an announcement that something is going on.

  18. ET1swaw says:

    @17 John Roth: And it won’t be the first time repatriots were held up in Trevor’s Star (HH return from Cerebrus IIRC).

  19. robert says:

    Pritchard said, at the meeting with Elizabeth aboard Honor’s flagship, that the two- to three-hundred Haven ships were eight hours outside the limit from Trevor’s Star. I assume that the handshake deal was binding enough so that the ships could transit or begin transiting to the vicinity of the Trevor’s Star terminus, if not transit the terminus to Manticoran space itself. Honor did vouch for Pritchard’s sincerity, after all, and she should know.

    Even if the entire Haven fleet, 300 SDs and all the screeners and auxiliaries could make the transit in under a day, safely (do not take the emergency transits as standard procedure, please), where would they be located and how would they be used and what tactics would need to be rehearsed and simulated? It is a good thing that Filareta is more than a couple of days away.

    While the threat of sending an SL fleet through the Beowulf terminus probably is a red herring, or maybe an orange herring, Rajampet, who I am convinced is a Mesan agent or at least bought and paid for by them, may attempt to do it anyway–that’d kill off a bunch more SLN vessels, which is the Alignment plan after all. And the politics of such a move are interesting considering the Beowulf-Mesan uh, relationship.

  20. B Taylor says:

    @13 John Roth – Why would letting the Havenite fleet though be treason? In the United States (although not necessarily in all other countries), treason is “providing aid and succor to the enemy” (there’s something about adhering to them, too). Letting a fleet in to help defend you is not aid, succor, or adherence. So, while it might pose some difficulty convincing the involved parties to keep quiet, let alone preventing anyone else from noticing, Manticore could bring the Havenite SDs through without a treaty. If the treaty ran into too much trouble getting ratified, the fact the navy (and Elizabeth) had done so could become a political problem (and politicians might throw out accusations of treason or other crimes), but I don’t see any charges sticking long enough for the courts to get involved (the political fallout might be worse, though). [I will note, on politicians throwing out accusations of crimes, that there never was a crime of “contempt of Congress,” despite people being convicted of it by the House Committee on Unamerican Activities. McCarthy was annoying like that.]

    @15 JeffM – Actually, the Havenite transponders wouldn’t be a problem. Send a an inspection party aboard, determine that the passengers are indeed all Manticoran personnel being returned, and then give them a Manticoran transponder code. Unless an observer has decent info on emission signatures, they won’t be able to tell that it isn’t a Manticoran hull. Oh, and I think it would only be a handful, not twenty, transports (remember, they are probably bulk passenger vessels or marine transports without the armories loaded).

    @17 John Roth – Even if the transports have come through, they could be sitting somewhere in the Manticore system not talking to anyone.

  21. JeffM says:

    Excuse me. “Midst Trial and Tribulation”. :)

  22. Drak Bibliophile says:

    JeffM, I knew what you’re asking for but I have no idea when DW wants to start snippets of the next Safehold book.

    However, IMO it is too early for me to start bugging him.

    Now if you want to go to http://forums.davidweber.net/, sign in and start bugging him, you’re welcome to do so. [Wink]

  23. JeffM says:

    @18.ET1swaw -Can they afford to hold them up at Trevor’s star?

    “That was a master stroke,” Elizabeth put in, her voice equally quiet, and shrugged when Pritchart looked back to her. “I’m not trying to suggest it was all political calculation, and neither is Honor. But once it sinks in that you’d decided to repatriate forty-two thousand Manticorans without any preconditions — and forty-two thousand trained and experienced shipyard workers, at that — one hell of a lot of entrenched ill feeling is going to take a shot on the chin.

    And most importantly:
    Especially given how desperately we need people like that after the Yawata Strike.”

    I mean, if you give the workers even a month home with their loved ones for R&R, that clock has to start ticking sometime. A heavy grav planet isn’t exactly the place for happy reunions.

  24. JeffM says:

    Drak, I was more celebrating actually seeing the title and release date, not being serious. Heck, last night I was thinking that even a snippet of a paragraph at a time would work. How’s that for silly? LOL!

  25. Drak Bibliophile says:

    Well, I wasn’t taking you too seriously.

    Otherwise, I won’t have pointed you to David Weber’s place. [Wink]

  26. robert says:

    One last comment before I sleep. The Bar is much better. It is sometimes a bit slow in accepting comments from users, but it is better. Not quite as good as this site, which has the best and most knowledgeable commenters, nor quite as good as the way-too-fanciful (and clearly bored without a new Weber book to read) commenters on Weber’s Forums, but it is way better than it used to be.


  27. Captain Button says:

    Wolf @9 The maxium mass for a single transit is ~200 million tons that is the amount that locks down that wormhole for 17 hours. So thats roughly 20 10million ton SD or for the Sollies 30 for their 6.8 million ton Scientist class.

    It occurs to me that one trick to pull on any SLN attack through the Beowulf wormhole is to mess up their timetable by locking down the wormhole for 17 hours. Of course, you need to have 200 million tons of ships handy for that, either on the Beowulf side or on the Manticore side. But in the latter case those ships would have to cope with a peeved SLN force.

    That would be like 30 big freighters, right? Assuming feighters can do simultaeous transits, which may not be a given, it sounds tricky.

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