Comments on: A Mighty Fortress – Snippet 24

By: Jeff Ehlers

Jeff Ehlers — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 02:21:22 +0000

#22: Hehe. I like to use the “boiling a frog” analogy I learned about quite a while ago, that if you turn the heat up gradually enough, you can boil a frog alive without it ever trying to jump out of the pot.

Of course, that’s a bit gruesome, so your “moving a piano” analogy is arguably more useful.

By: Ed T.

Ed T. — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 03:26:11 +0000

@#$%^&*()_+_)(**&^%$# to all you psyho-babblers!

By: RobertHuntingdon

RobertHuntingdon — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:43:56 +0000

@13

“The key is slow process where people don’t really notice most of it as it happens.”

This reminds me of the story of the pastor who decided that the piano in his church should be on the other side of the stage. He found out that it sounded better over there because of the acoustics of the room and a few other reasons, so he had it moved. And the congregation fired him on the spot.

A couple of years later he comes back to visit and what does he see?? but the piano is on the other side of the room! So he goes and asks his replacement about it. “I tried to move the piano and they fired me for it! How did you get them to let you do it?”

His replacement just smiled and said “I just moved it one foot each week.”

By: Robert H. Woodman

Robert H. Woodman — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:05:59 +0000

@16 (KimS) — A more interesting turn of events would be for the sleeping Archangel and Merlin to engage in trial by combat. The winner has God’s favor. The loser belongs to Shan-Wei. Merlin is a PICA with lots of super-duper technology. The sleeping Archangel is, well, an Archangel (in the minds of Safeholders), and he/she has lots of super-duper technology that nullifies many (if not most) of Merlin’s advantages. It could become even more interesting if, in the trial by combat, Merlin wins but “dies” then “comes back to life”. Of course, that would be really over the top, and I can’t imagine DW writing that into the Safehold story line. Still, it could have interesting/amusing implications for Safehold religious practices — St. Merlin’s Church or Our Lady of Nimue.

By: Richie

Richie — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:04:41 +0000

@18… Whilst I agree that Merlin needs to keep the “cabel” strong. He has given up flexability. In allowing them access to OWL and rights to govenern its behaviour independant of himself he has severly limited the amount of influence he can have. He can no longer do things that will benifit all but might not be what the “cabel” wants. He [Merlin] should be looking more closely at the history of the reformation. It was lots of indipendant actions (Martin Luther, John Calvin, Henry VIII and others) all persuing different goals (political, social, religeous) that forced the most change and brought on the huge advances of the renaisance (which is his medium term goal I am sure). Most of these people disagread with much of what the others did but all played a part. By all means keep a base to work from in the “cabel” but it would be more benificial to start sowing seads of technology similar to the intoduction of Newtonian physics in other places.

By: jgnfld

jgnfld — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:20:20 +0000

@15 (added) I too think the idea of multiple churches is a good one. We’ll see if Merlin/Charis think so as well. Staynair just might come up with it on his own.

By: jgnfld

jgnfld — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:18:36 +0000

@15…There is a lot in what you say and Merlin is aware of it at a conscious level, but at a deeper level, Merlin probably has violated the principle of acting for the in-group instead of the race on occasion.

It’s a trade-off that could come back to bite at some time, as you point out. On the other hand, to change a society as set in stone as Safehold, Merlin needs a committed “cabal” who are all pretty much in the know, trustworthy in the extreme, and willing to work over generational timespans. Merlin cannot ignore his responsibilities to that “cabal”, yet he must always remain aloof from it to the degree necessary to fulfill the higher mission.

It’s a dilemma. And, it’s one which will surely work its torturous way out over the years…and volumes.

By: Drak Bibliophile

Drak Bibliophile — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:02:09 +0000

Kim, plenty on Safehold would see that Archangel as a follower of Shan-wei or as another Shan-wei.

Sure Safehold would know that the Archangel was a ‘real’ one but even Shan-wei (in their minds) started as an Archangel.

By: KimS

KimS — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:42:15 +0000

I just thought of a nasty turn of events that could happen.
1. There is a sleeping Archangel that can be awakened by the key.
2. When that Archangel awakens, it uses its SNARCs to assess Safehold.
3. Everyone knows it is a true Archangel because of its actions and how it is the same as its statues/pictures.
4. That Archangel after much soul searching declares that this religion and its writing are a lie, spilling all the beans on Terran history and what Langhorne and Bedard did.
Truly nasty.

By: Richie

Richie — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:51:23 +0000

@11
PZ and RH, As I understand it his position is largely to do with the concept of grace. By this he took the position that all actions are irrelevant to salvation and God will forgive a believer anything but the believer must believe for him/her self. This was fundermentally different to the Roman Catholic church of the time which held that anyone who was a child of a Catholic was a member. In fact at this point a better comparitor would be Martin Luther. In the case of book there are many similarities between the aim that Staynair had in sending his letter (and hundreds of copies else where for all to read) to the CoGA and Martin Luther had in attaching his letter to the church door (for all to read). This being to convince the population that faith is personel not institutional. In both cases there was lots of other complaint related to church coruption.

In this vein I go back to my position Merlin is better of with lots of churches than only one or two. This makes it easier to influence one group here and another group there. Doing this allows lots of changes simultaineously that would be regarded together as heresy but as stand alone items would get through. Then natural cross polination over time will get you further ahead.
However this doesn not seem to be a policy that Merlin can persue anymore as he has become too firmly entrenched in the Charis camp. This should lead to big problems for Merlin as he has traded flexability for loyalty and whilst Caleb and this generation might be worthy he is now in a position where he can’t change his plans if it all starts to go badly. I regard this as a particularly bad choice on behalf of the main character. He/she should have remembered that she is in this for the species and not for the individuals or one particular country. To this end giving access to OWL is in my opinion is particularly bad as he is starting to give the others rights to control his movements and access to OWL. If DW is going to play fair this absolutly has to bite the main character badly. On the other hand DW is not known for illumenating bad decisions on the part of his main characters as much as I feel that this Seijin deserves.