Comments on: THE CRUCIBLE OF EMPIRE — Snippet 64 http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/ News announcements and snippets by Eric Flint Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:08:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Grant http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172573 Grant Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:13 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172573 I'm sorry guys, but "because nobody is looking for them" or "because tey're not paying enough attention" does not cut it. There is no way in hell modern sensor systems fail to notice a ship under power flying up to and docking with another ship that the Lexington most certainly IS looking at just because nobody was expecting it to happen or it's a little on the small side. They were picking out individual peices of floating *debris* that still had power and smashing them up for cripes sake and they don't notice the maneuvering ship that is first flying around in the middle of that same debris they're scanning for targets in... and then flies up to the ship they are at that very moment sending boarding parties onto and which they are sure as hell paying the closest possible attention to and subjecting to extensive scrutiny looking for active weapons emplacements, suitable entry point, etc...? Just... no. If I do not see "cloaking field" or "stealth systems" or something similar mentioned then this apparent casual invisibility of the Leixx is just purely silly. I appreciate it might end up working from a storytelling perspective if Eric really wanted to have some scene where the first encounter happens while they're both wandering around the corridors of a scary Ekhat derelict but it still doesn't make any sense. I’m sorry guys, but “because nobody is looking for them” or “because tey’re not paying enough attention” does not cut it. There is no way in hell modern sensor systems fail to notice a ship under power flying up to and docking with another ship that the Lexington most certainly IS looking at just because nobody was expecting it to happen or it’s a little on the small side. They were picking out individual peices of floating *debris* that still had power and smashing them up for cripes sake and they don’t notice the maneuvering ship that is first flying around in the middle of that same debris they’re scanning for targets in… and then flies up to the ship they are at that very moment sending boarding parties onto and which they are sure as hell paying the closest possible attention to and subjecting to extensive scrutiny looking for active weapons emplacements, suitable entry point, etc…?

Just… no.

If I do not see “cloaking field” or “stealth systems” or something similar mentioned then this apparent casual invisibility of the Leixx is just purely silly. I appreciate it might end up working from a storytelling perspective if Eric really wanted to have some scene where the first encounter happens while they’re both wandering around the corridors of a scary Ekhat derelict but it still doesn’t make any sense.

]]> By: Ian Darley http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172566 Ian Darley Wed, 10 Feb 2010 14:55:17 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172566 There is also the possibility that the Lexington crew is only seeing what they expect to see. A good example is the radar crew at Pearl Harbor in 1941. They picked up the Japanese attacking force but decided they were a flight of B-17's. Someone on the Lexington probably tagged the Leix ship as debris and stopped looking at it, even when it changed course. There is also the possibility that the Lexington crew is only seeing what they expect to see.
A good example is the radar crew at Pearl Harbor in 1941. They picked up the Japanese attacking force but decided they were a flight of B-17’s.
Someone on the Lexington probably tagged the Leix ship as debris and stopped looking at it, even when it changed course.

]]> By: BRK http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172541 BRK Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:06:21 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172541 Folks, I think that there is a cloaking field whicj explains why nobody sees them. What needs explanation is why is no one talking about it ? Here is an explanation that fits. Is this explanation the truth ? who knows ? and anyways this is fiction. 1. The Lliex do not talk about it because they don't know about it. Why ? All the ship building lore is lost and the group meant to build the ships is not there any longer. (it is given in the book). It could be that this cloaking was inbuilt into every single piece of spacefaring equipment of the Lliex. Why ? These guys have been exterminated like vermin for past so many millenia. So this need to keep hidden is so ingrained, that it is a default on all spacegoing artifacts manufactured by the Lliex 2. The Ekhat and Jao have not been able to sense the Lliex artifacts, though they have managed to detect the LLiex themselves. That is why these two bunch of guys are here in Valeron in the first place. Why are they not able to detec the artifacts ? Cloaking is a technology that convinces scanners that the artifact in question is not there at all. The two scanners the Lliex must fool are Jao and Ekhat. Surprise, surprise. it works ! 3. The humans have never encountered the Lliex. Except Caitlin no one else even knows that these guys are supposed to be around. 4. Why are the authors not telling us that ? Its their story, let them tell it their way is what I say . Folks, I think that there is a cloaking field whicj explains why nobody sees them.
What needs explanation is why is no one talking about it ?

Here is an explanation that fits. Is this explanation the truth ? who knows ? and anyways this is fiction.

1. The Lliex do not talk about it because they don’t know about it. Why ? All the ship building lore is lost and the group meant to build the ships is not there any longer. (it is given in the book). It could be that this cloaking was inbuilt into every single piece of spacefaring equipment of the Lliex. Why ? These guys have been exterminated like vermin for past so many millenia. So this need to keep hidden is so ingrained, that it is a default on all spacegoing artifacts manufactured by the Lliex

2. The Ekhat and Jao have not been able to sense the Lliex artifacts, though they have managed to detect the LLiex themselves. That is why these two bunch of guys are here in Valeron in the first place. Why are they not able to detec the artifacts ? Cloaking is a technology that convinces scanners that the artifact in question is not there at all. The two scanners the Lliex must fool are Jao and Ekhat. Surprise, surprise. it works !

3. The humans have never encountered the Lliex. Except Caitlin no one else even knows that these guys are supposed to be around.

4. Why are the authors not telling us that ? Its their story, let them tell it their way is what I say .

]]> By: Drak Bibliophile http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172540 Drak Bibliophile Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:18:42 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172540 Sorry Robert, that was only because of the 'suggestion' that the Lleix were extremely small. By the way, they aren't that small. [Wink] Sorry Robert, that was only because of the ’suggestion’ that the Lleix were extremely small.

By the way, they aren’t that small. [Wink]

]]> By: robert http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172539 robert Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:09:37 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172539 @9 Drak, what do you mean by that parenthetical expression "even for the Lleix?" It is intriguing. @7 Perhaps it was not mentioned because it was not considered unusual. Maybe Jihan has a different perspective than we do. Sorry, bad word. @9 Drak, what do you mean by that parenthetical expression “even for the Lleix?” It is intriguing.

@7 Perhaps it was not mentioned because it was not considered unusual. Maybe Jihan has a different perspective than we do. Sorry, bad word.

]]> By: Drak Bibliophile http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172538 Drak Bibliophile Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:14:57 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172538 Gary, you may be onto the answer. I'd also add that when a Battleship is fighting five Destroyers, the Cabin Cruiser might pass un-noticed. The Leixx spaceship was described as small (even for the Leixx). Gary, you may be onto the answer.

I’d also add that when a Battleship is fighting five Destroyers, the Cabin Cruiser might pass un-noticed.

The Leixx spaceship was described as small (even for the Leixx).

]]> By: gary http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172536 gary Wed, 10 Feb 2010 02:02:54 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172536 There is a possibility that the reason no one notice the Leixx is because they aren't specifically looking for them, mainly because only Wrot and Caitlin even knows remotely why they are in the nebula. Their scanners may have already picked up the signals from the Leixx ship but to the crew of the Lexington, it's probably just another bunch of signals from the debris field. Kinda like how when someone ask you to spot for anything unusual on a forest, the last thing you would expect is there is a specific tree species in there that is not suppose to grow there. There is a possibility that the reason no one notice the Leixx is because they aren’t specifically looking for them, mainly because only Wrot and Caitlin even knows remotely why they are in the nebula. Their scanners may have already picked up the signals from the Leixx ship but to the crew of the Lexington, it’s probably just another bunch of signals from the debris field. Kinda like how when someone ask you to spot for anything unusual on a forest, the last thing you would expect is there is a specific tree species in there that is not suppose to grow there.

]]> By: Grant http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172535 Grant Wed, 10 Feb 2010 01:00:11 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172535 While that would make sense of things, we have unfortunately already had a previous snippet where the Leixx and Jao were in face to face verbal negotiations on an old recording... and the Leixx negotiator was described as a "huge" elder. If the Jao that negotiator was speaking with were 50 times larger or something then it not being mentioned in the description of events would stretch credulity. While that would make sense of things, we have unfortunately already had a previous snippet where the Leixx and Jao were in face to face verbal negotiations on an old recording… and the Leixx negotiator was described as a “huge” elder. If the Jao that negotiator was speaking with were 50 times larger or something then it not being mentioned in the description of events would stretch credulity.

]]> By: robert http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172533 robert Tue, 09 Feb 2010 23:05:30 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172533 Grant, maybe we are dealing with an homage to Hal Clement here and the Lleix are Mesklin-sized creatures. I know you said not to tell you that they are too small, but maybe they are really too small. Nah. Grant, maybe we are dealing with an homage to Hal Clement here and the Lleix are Mesklin-sized creatures. I know you said not to tell you that they are too small, but maybe they are really too small.
Nah.

]]> By: Grant http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2010/02/08/the-crucible-of-empire-snippet-64/comment-page-1/#comment-172531 Grant Tue, 09 Feb 2010 21:27:38 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1939#comment-172531 I feel compelled to just drop a quick note that I have STILL not seen the words "cloaking field" or their equivalent to explain why everyone can see the Ekhat and all the little pieces of Ekhat debris and everyone can see the Lexington and everyone can see the Lexington's shuttles... but nobody ever sees the Leixx. And nobody try to tell me "cause they're smaller". We're dealing with sophisticated sensor systems operating at literally point blank freaking range apparently looking right past a ship *under powered flight*. I guarantee that at the very least Lexington had considerable attention focused on the Ekhat derelict while the Leixx flew up and *docked* with the damn thing considering they were at that very moment in the process of sending out their own boarding pary to it... and nobody noticed that? NOBODY? This is really irritating me. I feel compelled to just drop a quick note that I have STILL not seen the words “cloaking field” or their equivalent to explain why everyone can see the Ekhat and all the little pieces of Ekhat debris and everyone can see the Lexington and everyone can see the Lexington’s shuttles… but nobody ever sees the Leixx.

And nobody try to tell me “cause they’re smaller”. We’re dealing with sophisticated sensor systems operating at literally point blank freaking range apparently looking right past a ship *under powered flight*. I guarantee that at the very least Lexington had considerable attention focused on the Ekhat derelict while the Leixx flew up and *docked* with the damn thing considering they were at that very moment in the process of sending out their own boarding pary to it… and nobody noticed that? NOBODY?

This is really irritating me.

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