Comments on: Much Fall Of Blood — Snippet 15 http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/ News announcements and snippets by Eric Flint Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:52:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: alejo http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-167061 alejo Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:26:50 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-167061 Other questions opened up are: The levant and Egypt. Up until the middle of the 7th century, these were part of the Eastern Roman Empire and wre taken by the Muslims at a time when Byzantium was weakend from constant warfar with the Sassinad Persians. The border with the Persians was the Euphrates if memory serves. The Sassinad Persians. This lot controled a sizeable piece of land in the middle east including Mesopotamia, modernday Iran and land farther east. It was a Zoroastrian kingdom (boy wouldn't that be interesting in this book!) and, when the Muslims conquered them when they were weakened from all their wars with Byzantium (see above), refugees from this land fled eastward into central Asia which is why there are Persian-speaking peoples such as Dari in Afghanistan,and in other places. It was their conquest of part or the whole of these two great powers that gave the muslims the wherewithall to sweep westward across north africa and thence northward into Europe in 737 until they were stopped at the Battle of Tours by Charlemagne's forces. If all this didn't happen, how did they ever get out of Arabia? Proselytizing? That takes much more time than military conquest followed by forced conversions. The church The Crusades beginning in 1095 had a lot to do with the treatment of Christians by Muslims in Jerusalem over the centuries. Without the muslims controling the Levant, no excuse for the crusades could've been engineered to keep the fractious nobles from being at each others' throats and launch them at the saracens. With the Petrines and the Paulines cohabiting more or less peacefully, this church doesn't appear prone to the schism that drove the Orthodox and Catholic churches apart as well. Thoughts? Other questions opened up are:

The levant and Egypt. Up until the middle of the 7th century, these were part of the Eastern Roman Empire and wre taken by the Muslims at a time when Byzantium was weakend from constant warfar with the Sassinad Persians. The border with the Persians was the Euphrates if memory serves.

The Sassinad Persians.

This lot controled a sizeable piece of land in the middle east including Mesopotamia, modernday Iran and land farther east. It was a Zoroastrian kingdom (boy wouldn’t that be interesting in this book!) and, when the Muslims conquered them when they were weakened from all their wars with Byzantium (see above), refugees from this land fled eastward into central Asia which is why there are Persian-speaking peoples such as Dari in Afghanistan,and in other places.

It was their conquest of part or the whole of these two great powers that gave the muslims the wherewithall to sweep westward across north africa and thence northward into Europe in 737 until they were stopped at the Battle of Tours by Charlemagne’s forces. If all this didn’t happen, how did they ever get out of Arabia? Proselytizing? That takes much more time than military conquest followed by forced conversions.

The church
The Crusades beginning in 1095 had a lot to do with the treatment of Christians by Muslims in Jerusalem over the centuries. Without the muslims controling the Levant, no excuse for the crusades could’ve been engineered to keep the fractious nobles from being at each others’ throats and launch them at the saracens. With the Petrines and the Paulines cohabiting more or less peacefully, this church doesn’t appear prone to the schism that drove the Orthodox and Catholic churches apart as well.

Thoughts?

]]> By: robert http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-166757 robert Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:47:43 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-166757 @4 But from the map we see that Spain is not part of the Holy Roman Empire, and appears to be part of Aquitaine. And from what was briefly mentioned in an earlier snippet, it sounds like there is something odd about Aquitaine. Yes, the Crusaders sacked the city in 1204, which weakened Christianity in the East, but we don't even know if there was a Fourth Crusade, much less a first one, in this alternate history. If Islam did not conquer Spain, perhaps they did not conquer the Holy Land either. It sounds like the Venetians are more of a threat to the Byzantines than Islam is. @4
But from the map we see that Spain is not part of the Holy Roman Empire, and appears to be part of Aquitaine. And from what was briefly mentioned in an earlier snippet, it sounds like there is something odd about Aquitaine.
Yes, the Crusaders sacked the city in 1204, which weakened Christianity in the East, but we don’t even know if there was a Fourth Crusade, much less a first one, in this alternate history. If Islam did not conquer Spain, perhaps they did not conquer the Holy Land either. It sounds like the Venetians are more of a threat to the Byzantines than Islam is.

]]> By: James http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-166719 James Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:30:35 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-166719 Everything is different. First i dont think the conquest of spain ever really got off to a good start. Instead of scattered princes of europe they met the holy roman empire. I believe the mongols took care of the ottomans. And didnt byzantium accually fall because the crusaders sacked it before the muslims got there? Everything is different.

First i dont think the conquest of spain ever really got off to a good start. Instead of scattered princes of europe they met the holy roman empire.

I believe the mongols took care of the ottomans. And didnt byzantium accually fall because the crusaders sacked it before the muslims got there?

]]> By: Geoff http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-166703 Geoff Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:07:32 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-166703 Must. Have. e-Arc. *drool* Must. Have. e-Arc.

*drool*

]]> By: robert http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-166697 robert Fri, 04 Dec 2009 19:25:01 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-166697 Let's see. Manfred was born in 1520 AD and the first book (Shadow of the Lion)starts in 1537. I assume that this book takes place in the 1540's. Islam must have been around for at least 800 or 900 years. The map in Shadow of the Lion shows Spain as part of Aquitaine, so the Reconquista was either completely different, or Aquitaine is Islamic, or the conquest never happened (so what happened to Visigothic Spain?), or what? Clearly the conquest of Byzantium never happened. In fact it sounds as though it was attempted and failed with lots of bloodshed: "The Mongols are not welcome in Byzantium — with good reason." I agree, alejo. A bit of historic background would help--help, help, Eric, Drak, somebody. Let’s see. Manfred was born in 1520 AD and the first book (Shadow of the Lion)starts in 1537. I assume that this book takes place in the 1540′s. Islam must have been around for at least 800 or 900 years. The map in Shadow of the Lion shows Spain as part of Aquitaine, so the Reconquista was either completely different, or Aquitaine is Islamic, or the conquest never happened (so what happened to Visigothic Spain?), or what? Clearly the conquest of Byzantium never happened. In fact it sounds as though it was attempted and failed with lots of bloodshed: “The Mongols are not welcome in Byzantium — with good reason.”
I agree, alejo. A bit of historic background would help–help, help, Eric, Drak, somebody.

]]> By: alejo http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2009/12/04/much-fall-of-blood-snippet-15/comment-page-1/#comment-166681 alejo Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:53:25 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/?p=1805#comment-166681 This is shaping up to be a truly wonderful book. I'm wondering how Byzantium survived the Ottomans. Did the unpleasant business in 1204 not happen in this time line? When was the Crusade or Crusades that gave the "franks" that appelation? At risk of offending someone (please don't, it's not intended), how did Islam come about in this time line and get so strong? Did the Mongols take the Levant from the Byzantines or from the Seljuks? So many questions. This is shaping up to be a truly wonderful book. I’m
wondering how Byzantium survived
the
Ottomans. Did the unpleasant business in 1204 not happen in this time line? When was the Crusade or Crusades that gave the “franks” that appelation? At risk of offending someone (please don’t, it’s not intended), how did Islam come about in this time line and get so strong? Did the Mongols take the Levant from the Byzantines or from the Seljuks? So many questions.

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