Comments on: 1634: THE BALTIC WAR — snippet 32 http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2006/12/18/1634-the-baltic-war-snippet-32/ News announcements and snippets by Eric Flint Fri, 10 Feb 2012 22:52:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Willem Meijer http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2006/12/18/1634-the-baltic-war-snippet-32/comment-page-1/#comment-8380 Willem Meijer Wed, 27 Dec 2006 17:14:29 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2006/12/18/1634-the-baltic-war-snippet-32/#comment-8380 I can be no help on the method of defrocking a cardinal (not in a way valid under canon law), but in Spanish history has a bit of a precedent for a cleric doing his bit for the royal bloodline. In the house of Aragon King Alfonso I died without heirs. To solve the problem of the sucession his brother was coaxed out of a monastery to become King, and was in the world long enough to beget an heiress. This Patronilla then went on to marry the heir of Catalonia, thereby making up the Aragon that later went into the Spanish mix of Castile, Aragon, and all the other bits when Ferdinand and Isabella married. Alas Ferdinand was no direct descendant of this Petronilla, as the line of Aragon died out and was replaced by a junior branch of the Castile house (thereby making the marriage of the Most Catholic Kings F and I a bit of a problem, being cousins and thus in need of Papal dispensation). May I take the opportunity to say that the seizing of Haarlem is a bit of a problem to me. I am Dutch, and that makes the idea 'wrong' somehow, but I also know that getting sea-going ships past Amsterdam and up the IJ towards Haarlem would have been a nightmare. To get from the upper IJ into the Spaarne river you also have to pass a fairly small lock, or debark the troops and march for several kilometers before you could get al the city proper. The last few years a few new books on the early military history of the Republic have been published (mostly in Dutch), books that do not give the traditional viewpoint of great men and great battles. They go into recruitment, discipline, payment of troops, standardization of weapons, drill, &c, &c, and the slow development of military logistics. The 'historic' army of the Cardinal Infante of 1632 was not able to field both the garrisons (in order to secure the Southern Netherlands) and the field army the generals of the time found necessary to mount a campaign on land controlled by the Estates General. The army of the Estates was large enough to conduct its campaigns in the south and to seize most of the initiative but still not large enough to out-manouver the army of Flanders and really make progress. And time and again it (the Estates' army) could not take advantage of it's opportunities because the logistics of feeding a field army several day's maching away from the most forward supply bases was beyond their abilities. It was the French army of the late 17th and early 18th century that truly developed the prepared depots and the ways to get bread and forrage to the troops in such a way that the army could keep moving after seizing it's first few towns or fortresses. If your early campaign was succesfull in the 1630's, you entrenched and started to prepare for the counter-attack, you did not press on, at least not in the over-fortified lands of Flanders and Brabant. A lightning strike throught the most densely populated part of the Republic to join up with a naval attack on Haarlem (say, a 1630's version of Operation Market Garden) I can't really believe. A swift strike east of Utrecht towards Amersfoort and Naarden, thereby cutting the country in half is more feasible, it is what Louis XIV almost did in 1672. I hope the siege of Amsterdam will soon be over, because I take it that Amstelveen, where my parents live, is in Spanish hands. My sister (in the Watergraafsmeer) lives at this moment in danger of her life and honour from marauding troops, and the district where I live (the so-called Eastern Islands) is part of the soggy no-mans land in front of the city walls. The shelling is horrendous. The only good thing is that the land is so water-logged that the Dons in their armour drown if they take any step off the beaten path. Parts of these polders (even now) have a ground water level some 30 cm below the ground, and (in the 17th century) were unpassable swamps during autumn and winter. Yours, Willem Meijer Oostenburgergracht 41H 1018 NB Amsterdam PS Malaria was endemic in some parts of North Holland until the 1950's. Please make sure quinine is shipped in as soon as possible. I can be no help on the method of defrocking a cardinal (not in a way valid under canon law), but in Spanish history has a bit of a precedent for a cleric doing his bit for the royal bloodline. In the house of Aragon King Alfonso I died without heirs. To solve the problem of the sucession his brother was coaxed out of a monastery to become King, and was in the world long enough to beget an heiress. This Patronilla then went on to marry the heir of Catalonia, thereby making up the Aragon that later went into the Spanish mix of Castile, Aragon, and all the other bits when Ferdinand and Isabella married. Alas Ferdinand was no direct descendant of this Petronilla, as the line of Aragon died out and was replaced by a junior branch of the Castile house (thereby making the marriage of the Most Catholic Kings F and I a bit of a problem, being cousins and thus in need of Papal dispensation).

May I take the opportunity to say that the seizing of Haarlem is a bit of a problem to me. I am Dutch, and that makes the idea ‘wrong’ somehow, but I also know that getting sea-going ships past Amsterdam and up the IJ towards Haarlem would have been a nightmare. To get from the upper IJ into the Spaarne river you also have to pass a fairly small lock, or debark the troops and march for several kilometers before you could get al the city proper.

The last few years a few new books on the early military history of the Republic have been published (mostly in Dutch), books that do not give the traditional viewpoint of great men and great battles. They go into recruitment, discipline, payment of troops, standardization of weapons, drill, &c, &c, and the slow development of military logistics. The ‘historic’ army of the Cardinal Infante of 1632 was not able to field both the garrisons (in order to secure the Southern Netherlands) and the field army the generals of the time found necessary to mount a campaign on land controlled by the Estates General. The army of the Estates was large enough to conduct its campaigns in the south and to seize most of the initiative but still not large enough to out-manouver the army of Flanders and really make progress. And time and again it (the Estates’ army) could not take advantage of it’s opportunities because the logistics of feeding a field army several day’s maching away from the most forward supply bases was beyond their abilities. It was the French army of the late 17th and early 18th century that truly developed the prepared depots and the ways to get bread and forrage to the troops in such a way that the army could keep moving after seizing it’s first few towns or fortresses. If your early campaign was succesfull in the 1630′s, you entrenched and started to prepare for the counter-attack, you did not press on, at least not in the over-fortified lands of Flanders and Brabant.

A lightning strike throught the most densely populated part of the Republic to join up with a naval attack on Haarlem (say, a 1630′s version of Operation Market Garden) I can’t really believe. A swift strike east of Utrecht towards Amersfoort and Naarden, thereby cutting the country in half is more feasible, it is what Louis XIV almost did in 1672.

I hope the siege of Amsterdam will soon be over, because I take it that Amstelveen, where my parents live, is in Spanish hands. My sister (in the Watergraafsmeer) lives at this moment in danger of her life and honour from marauding troops, and the district where I live (the so-called Eastern Islands) is part of the soggy no-mans land in front of the city walls. The shelling is horrendous. The only good thing is that the land is so water-logged that the Dons in their armour drown if they take any step off the beaten path. Parts of these polders (even now) have a ground water level some 30 cm below the ground, and (in the 17th century) were
unpassable swamps during autumn and winter.

Yours,

Willem Meijer
Oostenburgergracht 41H
1018 NB Amsterdam

PS Malaria was endemic in some parts of North Holland until the 1950′s. Please make sure quinine is shipped in as soon as possible.

]]> By: Brockfield http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2006/12/18/1634-the-baltic-war-snippet-32/comment-page-1/#comment-8008 Brockfield Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:25:23 +0000 http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2006/12/18/1634-the-baltic-war-snippet-32/#comment-8008 I'm sure you have someone in mind already as the bride for the Cardinal Infante, but just wanted to offer a suggestion. Frederick, the Winter King, recently had his family captured by the Cardinal Infante's forces. Tom Simpson even contemplated what would happen to some of them now. Frederick's eldest daughter, Elisabeth, the Princess Palatine, would be of suitable rank to avoid the question of it being an unequal marriage. Granted, her family is no position of power in 1634, but she is of proper rank. Historically she did refuse to marry a Polish King as he was Catholic, so that would be a problem. However, she also corresponded with Rene Descartes, so the Cardinal-Infante's support of artists, philosophers is a common theme. Additionally, her claim to the Palatinate would be good diplomatic leverage with the USE. It's also someone in the region of the new realm that the Cardinal Infante is trying to establish. Just a thought though. I'm sure that there are likely plans for the entire family of the Winter King as well as a bride picked out for the Cardinal-Infante. I’m sure you have someone in mind already as the bride for the Cardinal Infante, but just wanted to offer a suggestion.

Frederick, the Winter King, recently had his family captured by the Cardinal Infante’s forces. Tom Simpson even contemplated what would happen to some of them now. Frederick’s eldest daughter, Elisabeth, the Princess Palatine, would be of suitable rank to avoid the question of it being an unequal marriage. Granted, her family is no position of power in 1634, but she is of proper rank. Historically she did refuse to marry a Polish King as he was Catholic, so that would be a problem. However, she also corresponded with Rene Descartes, so the Cardinal-Infante’s support of artists, philosophers is a common theme. Additionally, her claim to the Palatinate would be good diplomatic leverage with the USE. It’s also someone in the region of the new realm that the Cardinal Infante is trying to establish.

Just a thought though. I’m sure that there are likely plans for the entire family of the Winter King as well as a bride picked out for the Cardinal-Infante.

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